casinoroyale
02-11 01:26 PM
I did paid consultation to find answer to this question with murthy office. As per them, one can do transfer and extension of H1B even after using AP as long as the current I-797 is still valid.
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prem_goel
09-17 11:35 AM
Lofgren is offering managers amendment (which includes a comprise with Mr.King and minorities). THIS IS for HR6020 NOT for HR5882. We are NEXT.
thanks for the live commentary guys. Its good for us unfortunate souls who are not able to open these links at work!
thanks for the live commentary guys. Its good for us unfortunate souls who are not able to open these links at work!
gk_2000
04-22 11:05 AM
This is truly unfair where country of birth determined who gets an 'Employment' based greencard before someone else. It can only be fixed by eliminating per-country limits.
A question -- has IV considered challenging the country quota in court? Because the Constitution forbids discrimination based on country of origin..
A question -- has IV considered challenging the country quota in court? Because the Constitution forbids discrimination based on country of origin..
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qplearn
09-13 04:10 PM
A simple Google search on Immigration Voice has in its fourth hit that Washington Post Article...I don't maintain the page that you were looking in.
Please stop complaining, and stop yelling. Please do something constructive - write that op-ed piece and publish it in The NY Times.
Thank you.
This forum is for discussions; nobody is yelling at you. YOU pointed out to thread that linked to the WASH Post article; it turned out to be about illegal immigrants.
Also, I will definitely write to NY TIMES, but cannot do it on behalf of IV.
Also, I do not know of your efforts; so how could I trash them? :)
Please stop complaining, and stop yelling. Please do something constructive - write that op-ed piece and publish it in The NY Times.
Thank you.
This forum is for discussions; nobody is yelling at you. YOU pointed out to thread that linked to the WASH Post article; it turned out to be about illegal immigrants.
Also, I will definitely write to NY TIMES, but cannot do it on behalf of IV.
Also, I do not know of your efforts; so how could I trash them? :)
more...
a1b2c3
05-08 08:24 PM
Feedbacks I have received for my post -
http://i39.tinypic.com/2jcvnh5.jpg
Don't worry about what feedback people gave you. People are jealous of you. Understandbly so, because of dates going back all the time. You deserve what you got and you got what you deserve (I mean the citizenship and not the lousy feedback no one should care abt). You have pretty good educational background too.
Now, that you had your sense of fulfillment and wallowed in it, can you share some info with us? :) I asked you a couple of questions, which I would love to get answers to.
http://i39.tinypic.com/2jcvnh5.jpg
Don't worry about what feedback people gave you. People are jealous of you. Understandbly so, because of dates going back all the time. You deserve what you got and you got what you deserve (I mean the citizenship and not the lousy feedback no one should care abt). You have pretty good educational background too.
Now, that you had your sense of fulfillment and wallowed in it, can you share some info with us? :) I asked you a couple of questions, which I would love to get answers to.
nyte_crawler
08-01 04:16 PM
MBA is not about just learning or knowledge. (atleast that's what I saw in the business school). If you really want to know about finance, strategy or economic courses, it is already available in Sloan open courseware website. MBA is about networking and meeting the right people (even if you dont know anything) who can provide leads and opportunities in future. It also helps if it is from a top university with great alumni. I did go to a top 15 school flextime. Did it really help me ? Personally No. But it did provided me with a foot in the door for many opportunities. If you are H1B not looking to get a GC then I would risk it and go for full time. If you have a greencard, then I would risk it again and go for full time. But if you are in the middle of the process and want MBA to help your future growth and if you are planning to do part time, it is a long shot. Most of the part time programs don't really care about their students with respect to career opportunities and they all cater towards full timers. (Those are the statistics that is widely published in the news) It is a cash cow for the university. So the only odd man out is entreprenuership. If you are lucky you will be make it with the first company. But serial entreprenuers will eventually succeed in the long term. My advise is to go for a full time program with a top 15 school, I wish I should have done in top 5. Again there are lucky ones who can make it big even with a lower school, but the odds are slim.
Experience made me a little pessimist :confused:
Experience made me a little pessimist :confused:
more...
caliguy
10-29 12:11 PM
For all of you who have send me a pvt. message asking me how to reach IO @ TSC, here are the steps:
1) Call Customer Service @ 1 800 375 5283
2) Continue in english, hit 1
3) To check the status, hit 2
4) Know your receipt number, hit 1
5) Enter Receipt number, and then for SRC, hit 1
6) Confirm Receipt Number, hit 1
7) You will now hear the status of your case. At this point, hit 3 to "Report a problem".
Here is the trick - now you will hear 4 options. I believe # 3 is "If your case is outside the processing time..." and # 4 is for "If you have filed several cases and have received a decision on....". You want to hit # 4 and you will be connected to an IO at TSC.
Just a word of caution: You will be talking to an Immigration Officer @ TSC so please be very polite. Some officers will tell you that they cannot give you any information, or you should be calling Customer Service number, simply say 'Thank You' and hang up. It might take days/weeks before you reach an IO who would be willing to help.
Again, the sequence is:
Call the customer service number.
Press 1, 2, 1, Enter Receipt Number, Hit 1 for SRC, Hit 1 to confirm RN, 3 to report a problem, 4 to connect to an officer @ TSC.
Also, you do not have to wait to hear the complete message. You can be connected to an IO in less than 30 seconds (trust me, you will get good at it). I had the print out of steps sitting in my car and I would go to my car every 2 hours and call TSC. Keep a log of when you called and who the officer was (if the officer tells you their name, note it down cuz next time you can simply hang up if the same officer is on the line).
PLEASE DO NOT WASTE TIME CALLING CUSTOMER SERVICE, AND DO NOT OPEN TOO MANY SRs.
1) Call Customer Service @ 1 800 375 5283
2) Continue in english, hit 1
3) To check the status, hit 2
4) Know your receipt number, hit 1
5) Enter Receipt number, and then for SRC, hit 1
6) Confirm Receipt Number, hit 1
7) You will now hear the status of your case. At this point, hit 3 to "Report a problem".
Here is the trick - now you will hear 4 options. I believe # 3 is "If your case is outside the processing time..." and # 4 is for "If you have filed several cases and have received a decision on....". You want to hit # 4 and you will be connected to an IO at TSC.
Just a word of caution: You will be talking to an Immigration Officer @ TSC so please be very polite. Some officers will tell you that they cannot give you any information, or you should be calling Customer Service number, simply say 'Thank You' and hang up. It might take days/weeks before you reach an IO who would be willing to help.
Again, the sequence is:
Call the customer service number.
Press 1, 2, 1, Enter Receipt Number, Hit 1 for SRC, Hit 1 to confirm RN, 3 to report a problem, 4 to connect to an officer @ TSC.
Also, you do not have to wait to hear the complete message. You can be connected to an IO in less than 30 seconds (trust me, you will get good at it). I had the print out of steps sitting in my car and I would go to my car every 2 hours and call TSC. Keep a log of when you called and who the officer was (if the officer tells you their name, note it down cuz next time you can simply hang up if the same officer is on the line).
PLEASE DO NOT WASTE TIME CALLING CUSTOMER SERVICE, AND DO NOT OPEN TOO MANY SRs.
2010 Back to 2011 Dodge Charger
Macaca
02-07 08:09 PM
you have a PD only if you are in a pool that has a restriction on the number of GCs that can be issued in one year. if you are exempt, basically you don't have a PD. That is, it is always current. You do wait for them to finish processing your I-485 for which there will always be a processing date, which may or may not be current for you.
Also, please don't give any such ideas to USCIS; they may like this particular idea :D
I hope USCIS has your thought process. Your thought process means that there is something in SKILL for US MS. I used to think that SKILL is only for non US MS.
Have you seen SKILL? Does it have anything for US Ph D and Post doc? You can have a US Ph D without US MS and you can be US post doc without US Phd? I wonder if they are SKILLed? Thanks.
Also, please don't give any such ideas to USCIS; they may like this particular idea :D
I hope USCIS has your thought process. Your thought process means that there is something in SKILL for US MS. I used to think that SKILL is only for non US MS.
Have you seen SKILL? Does it have anything for US Ph D and Post doc? You can have a US Ph D without US MS and you can be US post doc without US Phd? I wonder if they are SKILLed? Thanks.
more...
kumar1
06-12 05:16 PM
Check Home page of USCIS.
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kubmilegaGC
09-17 01:21 PM
I CAN NOT BELIEVE THIS...this morning 10:00AM CST we got the CPO emails for both of us...
I just can not thank Aall of you enough and the IV community for the support they have provided over the last few years - especially since Sept 1.
THANK YOU GOD - THANKS FOR LISTENING.
I will be around - not going anywhere and will support IV efforts!
BEST OF LUCK FOR THOSE WHO ARE WAITING...Believe me "appka bhi number aayega" I was loosing hopes - since Sept 1 when saw number of approvals after my PD/RD/ND etc..but there is really nothing that can predict this system.
Here is my journey - encapsulated:
PD- June 04
I485 files on July 2nd 2007 - NSC
RD 8/4/2207
SR #1: 9/4/2209
SR #2" 9/11/2209
Senator contact: 9/10/2009 and 9/11/2009
Infopass: 9/15/2009
CPO emails: 9/17/2009
Hang in there - open SRs and contact your senators!!!
I just can not thank Aall of you enough and the IV community for the support they have provided over the last few years - especially since Sept 1.
THANK YOU GOD - THANKS FOR LISTENING.
I will be around - not going anywhere and will support IV efforts!
BEST OF LUCK FOR THOSE WHO ARE WAITING...Believe me "appka bhi number aayega" I was loosing hopes - since Sept 1 when saw number of approvals after my PD/RD/ND etc..but there is really nothing that can predict this system.
Here is my journey - encapsulated:
PD- June 04
I485 files on July 2nd 2007 - NSC
RD 8/4/2207
SR #1: 9/4/2209
SR #2" 9/11/2209
Senator contact: 9/10/2009 and 9/11/2009
Infopass: 9/15/2009
CPO emails: 9/17/2009
Hang in there - open SRs and contact your senators!!!
more...
hyddsnr
04-30 08:23 PM
Hi,
Its been two months passed since i got GC. My question is , Is it necessary to stay with employer for atleast six months after getting GC. Would really appreciate if someone helps me out.
Its been two months passed since i got GC. My question is , Is it necessary to stay with employer for atleast six months after getting GC. Would really appreciate if someone helps me out.
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meghanap2000
10-30 05:06 PM
You want to know the "experiences" of people on how to take a photocopy ? I believe you got your GC in EB-2 category, so you should be skilled enough to know this.
gootle.....either give answer or shut your both.....
gootle.....either give answer or shut your both.....
more...
house 2010 2011 Dodge Charger
jsb
10-30 11:30 AM
What is this reverse brain drain ? there is no such thing - folks who are here are going to hang on tooth & nail to stay here come hell or high water - the only ones who are going back are the ones who have no other option.
It is not really a reverse-brain-drain. It is just less than 100% people on work visas attempting to stay permanently. Reverse-brain-drain will be when American born (or well established people) try to move to other countries. Some living here for few years, finding difficult to get used to American culture, food, life-style, etc., might decide to go back to their native country, but that is not reverse brain-drain.
Revere-brain-drain may happen in the future, but it is not there yet.
It is not really a reverse-brain-drain. It is just less than 100% people on work visas attempting to stay permanently. Reverse-brain-drain will be when American born (or well established people) try to move to other countries. Some living here for few years, finding difficult to get used to American culture, food, life-style, etc., might decide to go back to their native country, but that is not reverse brain-drain.
Revere-brain-drain may happen in the future, but it is not there yet.
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bkarnik
09-17 11:31 AM
Done..now on to 6020
King...now talking..he is withdrawing hs amendment on 6020. Zoe now on.
King...now talking..he is withdrawing hs amendment on 6020. Zoe now on.
more...
pictures Mopar 2011 Dodge Charger
satishku_2000
08-01 01:38 PM
^^^^^
dresses 2011 Dodge Charger Front
cnag
04-14 07:47 PM
I just sent in my third $50 thru paypal. I wish I could contribute more. I am likely to come to bench soon and not in a position to do so. I feel bad...sorry guys.
more...
makeup 2011 Dodge Charger Police
indyanguy
06-12 05:17 PM
It�s really a sad state for us, first the lawyer�s then the BEC delayed the cases, then the july fiasco.
With a PD of 11/01 I am not sure porting to EB2 will be worth it specially with premium I-140 gone and the costs associated, ????? :(
I strongly think it's worth it
With a PD of 11/01 I am not sure porting to EB2 will be worth it specially with premium I-140 gone and the costs associated, ????? :(
I strongly think it's worth it
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NIW
11-14 01:36 PM
Thanks guys for your suggestions. But no thanks!
Let me continue with my action while you continue with yours.
My posts are not intended for you. They are meant for the rare breed that think they can make a difference in this world. I'm sorry to know you aren't that.
I would rather spend my time working for causes that I beleive - IV as well as Immigrants Rights, instead of wasting time on an on-line brawl. I'm sure you guys also have better things to do in life.
Let's just move on.
I totally agree with you on this hypocrite Lou Dobbs and also admire your determination and sticking to your views. I too belive that we can make a change if we are determined. I have written my views to the radio station eventhough I don't listen to that channel as I live somewhere far. I hate to side track the issue but I couldn't control my self to accept that Alexander was great( that apprears in your posts) I stongly belive that he was not great but was a coward (I came to conclusion after reviewing the history)
Let me continue with my action while you continue with yours.
My posts are not intended for you. They are meant for the rare breed that think they can make a difference in this world. I'm sorry to know you aren't that.
I would rather spend my time working for causes that I beleive - IV as well as Immigrants Rights, instead of wasting time on an on-line brawl. I'm sure you guys also have better things to do in life.
Let's just move on.
I totally agree with you on this hypocrite Lou Dobbs and also admire your determination and sticking to your views. I too belive that we can make a change if we are determined. I have written my views to the radio station eventhough I don't listen to that channel as I live somewhere far. I hate to side track the issue but I couldn't control my self to accept that Alexander was great( that apprears in your posts) I stongly belive that he was not great but was a coward (I came to conclusion after reviewing the history)
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punjabi77
12-26 12:31 AM
I saw posts quite similar to my situation so didnt start a new thread but instead thought of using this thread to ask my question.
My situation is
I have my EAD and AP, and my 3 year extension is already approved but H1 stamp has expired.
My wife has used EAD and her H4 extension came before she stopped working on EAD. But she does have 3 year H4 extension too with an expired H4 stamp.
Now we plan on travelling to India next week and i am kind of confused as to whether we should go for H1-H4 stamping or not, or should we use AP to come back.
I have read in so many threads and forums that even if you enter on AP, ur H1 status is valid.
Now if my wife goes for H4 stamping, will the imigration officer consider her under H4 or AOS as she has used her EAD?
Since i have 1 month to come back to US, I am scared if for any reason Immi officer might take time to stamp visa on our passport and we might not make it back to US in time. And also what if they ask all questions regarding GC.
Has anyone gone through the same situation?
SInce these days, mostly all companies are hiring people who have EAD, sometimes i think what is the need to maintain H1 then.
Another thing is that i am not full time employed with my client, so when my project expires, i can find a new company and get my H1B-H4 transfered and that will change my Status from Parolee to H1b again.
So looking at all this, i think even if i come on AP, everything should work out fine for me.
Please post ur suggestions and advice.
My situation is
I have my EAD and AP, and my 3 year extension is already approved but H1 stamp has expired.
My wife has used EAD and her H4 extension came before she stopped working on EAD. But she does have 3 year H4 extension too with an expired H4 stamp.
Now we plan on travelling to India next week and i am kind of confused as to whether we should go for H1-H4 stamping or not, or should we use AP to come back.
I have read in so many threads and forums that even if you enter on AP, ur H1 status is valid.
Now if my wife goes for H4 stamping, will the imigration officer consider her under H4 or AOS as she has used her EAD?
Since i have 1 month to come back to US, I am scared if for any reason Immi officer might take time to stamp visa on our passport and we might not make it back to US in time. And also what if they ask all questions regarding GC.
Has anyone gone through the same situation?
SInce these days, mostly all companies are hiring people who have EAD, sometimes i think what is the need to maintain H1 then.
Another thing is that i am not full time employed with my client, so when my project expires, i can find a new company and get my H1B-H4 transfered and that will change my Status from Parolee to H1b again.
So looking at all this, i think even if i come on AP, everything should work out fine for me.
Please post ur suggestions and advice.
Oli-G
06-16 10:14 PM
Cheers guys!
Just did a rough sketch on paper, and then drew it up in vector, no secret really... and to be honest it isnt perfect at all, but turned out ok.
I guess drawing it at a larger scale then shrinking helped with some of the fine tuning.
Just did a rough sketch on paper, and then drew it up in vector, no secret really... and to be honest it isnt perfect at all, but turned out ok.
I guess drawing it at a larger scale then shrinking helped with some of the fine tuning.
wantMyGC
07-14 07:27 PM
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2007/db20070713_687551.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index _businessweek+exclusives
The Gandhi Protests
Denied the permanent U.S. residency they'd been promised, high-skilled workers are taking to the streets in nonviolent protest
Engineers, computer programmers, and tech workers aren't known for outspoken collective action and political protest. But on July 14, up to 1,000 high-skilled, legal immigrants will gather in San Jose, Calif., to express their outrage at the U.S. government's failure to deliver on a promise to hasten the processing of their green-card applications. Many of these immigrants came to the U.S. from India on visas and have been stuck in what they say is an interminable wait for permanent residency and the freedoms it brings.
"We're stepping out to bring this issue to the attention of lawmakers and the public," says Ashish Sharma, 37, who has worked as a manager at a tech firm in Los Angeles for seven years, awaiting his green card. "The debate has been dominated by illegal immigration, but we want to put a spotlight on the hurdles we're facing as a hard-working and law-abiding group. It's time for corrective action."
Sharma says he spent $5,000 flying his wife and children to the U.S. from India to prepare green-card documents that the government originally said it would accept and then later decided not to accept. Tomorrow, he will drive more than five hours to San Jose to meet hundreds of others stuck in the green-card backlog who want to make a public statement about their frustrations.
Long Delays Spur Protests
The rally follows a symbolic action on July 10 in which hundreds of green-card applicants sent flowers to the director of U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services in a show of peaceful protest reminiscent of Mohandas Gandhi's nonviolent campaign against British rule before India gained independence in 1947. The idea for both the flower sending and the rally emerged from Immigration Voice, a group that advocates for high-tech immigrants in the U.S. on visas.
The Gandhi protests, though grounded in years of frustration and anger, were sparked by recent events. On June 12, the U.S. State Dept. issued a bulletin promising it was ready to move hundreds of thousands of green-card applicants into the final phase of processing, known as the Adjustment of Status. Visa workers rushed to complete their Adjustment of Status applications for July 2, the first day they could be submitted. Applicants scrambled to gather signatures, birth certificates, and immunization records, many taking off work and rearranging travel plans. But at the beginning of July, the State Dept. retracted the bulletin, explaining the U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services had already fulfilled its quota and would not accept further applications. The immigrant community exploded, with critics saying they are the victims of bureaucratic incompetence and a broken immigration policy.
The green-card backlog has emerged because of a mismatch between the number of visa holders and the number of green cards available to them each year. Tens of thousands of foreign workers enter the U.S. on work visas each year, and many apply for green cards. But current government rules limit the number of people who can be admitted to the U.S. from any particular country to 9,800. The result is that for larger countries, including India and China, the wait for permanent U.S. residency now stretches for years. As they wait, visa workers are required to maintain the same job and salary, or they are bumped back to the long queue. That leaves many of the most educated and talented immigrants feeling stuck, sometimes to the point of hopelessness (see BusinessWeek.com, 6/21/07, "One Easy Fix for Immigration").
Joining the Chorus
Many American companies are concerned about the government's immigration policies. Tech companies, including IBM (IBM), Motorola (MOT), Oracle (ORCL), eBay (EBAY), and Intel (INTC), have pressured Congress to allow in more skilled workers on temporary and permanent visas. Google (GOOG), with many immigrants at the company including one of the founders, sent one of its top executives to make the case in Washington (see BusinessWeek.com, 6/7/07, "Immigration: Google Makes Its Case"). Bill Gates, Microsoft's (MSFT) co-founder, also made the trip to Congress to argue for a change in policy (see BusinessWeek.com, 3/8/07, "Gates to Senate: More Visas").
Immigration Voice has for several years been a forum for visa workers awaiting green cards, but it is now becoming a critical organizing tool through its Web site, volunteer leadership, and increased lobbying efforts. Immigration Voice President Aman Kapoor says green-card applicants are busy organizing a series of rallies to take place across the country on one day next month.
"This is not the usual population to go into the streets and protest; it's a group that has remained quiet and follows the rules," says Kapoor. "But people have lost faith in the system, and we have reached a tipping point in terms of frustration. There's an understanding that more dramatic action is needed."
The Gandhi Protests
Denied the permanent U.S. residency they'd been promised, high-skilled workers are taking to the streets in nonviolent protest
Engineers, computer programmers, and tech workers aren't known for outspoken collective action and political protest. But on July 14, up to 1,000 high-skilled, legal immigrants will gather in San Jose, Calif., to express their outrage at the U.S. government's failure to deliver on a promise to hasten the processing of their green-card applications. Many of these immigrants came to the U.S. from India on visas and have been stuck in what they say is an interminable wait for permanent residency and the freedoms it brings.
"We're stepping out to bring this issue to the attention of lawmakers and the public," says Ashish Sharma, 37, who has worked as a manager at a tech firm in Los Angeles for seven years, awaiting his green card. "The debate has been dominated by illegal immigration, but we want to put a spotlight on the hurdles we're facing as a hard-working and law-abiding group. It's time for corrective action."
Sharma says he spent $5,000 flying his wife and children to the U.S. from India to prepare green-card documents that the government originally said it would accept and then later decided not to accept. Tomorrow, he will drive more than five hours to San Jose to meet hundreds of others stuck in the green-card backlog who want to make a public statement about their frustrations.
Long Delays Spur Protests
The rally follows a symbolic action on July 10 in which hundreds of green-card applicants sent flowers to the director of U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services in a show of peaceful protest reminiscent of Mohandas Gandhi's nonviolent campaign against British rule before India gained independence in 1947. The idea for both the flower sending and the rally emerged from Immigration Voice, a group that advocates for high-tech immigrants in the U.S. on visas.
The Gandhi protests, though grounded in years of frustration and anger, were sparked by recent events. On June 12, the U.S. State Dept. issued a bulletin promising it was ready to move hundreds of thousands of green-card applicants into the final phase of processing, known as the Adjustment of Status. Visa workers rushed to complete their Adjustment of Status applications for July 2, the first day they could be submitted. Applicants scrambled to gather signatures, birth certificates, and immunization records, many taking off work and rearranging travel plans. But at the beginning of July, the State Dept. retracted the bulletin, explaining the U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services had already fulfilled its quota and would not accept further applications. The immigrant community exploded, with critics saying they are the victims of bureaucratic incompetence and a broken immigration policy.
The green-card backlog has emerged because of a mismatch between the number of visa holders and the number of green cards available to them each year. Tens of thousands of foreign workers enter the U.S. on work visas each year, and many apply for green cards. But current government rules limit the number of people who can be admitted to the U.S. from any particular country to 9,800. The result is that for larger countries, including India and China, the wait for permanent U.S. residency now stretches for years. As they wait, visa workers are required to maintain the same job and salary, or they are bumped back to the long queue. That leaves many of the most educated and talented immigrants feeling stuck, sometimes to the point of hopelessness (see BusinessWeek.com, 6/21/07, "One Easy Fix for Immigration").
Joining the Chorus
Many American companies are concerned about the government's immigration policies. Tech companies, including IBM (IBM), Motorola (MOT), Oracle (ORCL), eBay (EBAY), and Intel (INTC), have pressured Congress to allow in more skilled workers on temporary and permanent visas. Google (GOOG), with many immigrants at the company including one of the founders, sent one of its top executives to make the case in Washington (see BusinessWeek.com, 6/7/07, "Immigration: Google Makes Its Case"). Bill Gates, Microsoft's (MSFT) co-founder, also made the trip to Congress to argue for a change in policy (see BusinessWeek.com, 3/8/07, "Gates to Senate: More Visas").
Immigration Voice has for several years been a forum for visa workers awaiting green cards, but it is now becoming a critical organizing tool through its Web site, volunteer leadership, and increased lobbying efforts. Immigration Voice President Aman Kapoor says green-card applicants are busy organizing a series of rallies to take place across the country on one day next month.
"This is not the usual population to go into the streets and protest; it's a group that has remained quiet and follows the rules," says Kapoor. "But people have lost faith in the system, and we have reached a tipping point in terms of frustration. There's an understanding that more dramatic action is needed."
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